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Bamboo Shoots!

Age 35, Male

Poet/Designer/Etc

ACCOMPLISHED

Sweden

Joined on 1/17/04

Level:: 60
Exp Points:: 63,256 / 100,000
Exp Rank:: 82
Vote Power:: 10.04 votes
Audio Scouts: 10+
Art Scouts: 10+

Rank:: Sup. Commander
Global Rank:: 6
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Whistle:: Deity

Trophies:: 43
Medals:: 11,308
Supporter:: 11y 11m 11d
Gear:: 11

Comments

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1999Elias 2013-11-19 11:30:48

One problem though, people can change their age, and also can make another profiles what give us an idea of what people can do here to view mature content, but, like me, there's other people that is down to 18 but is very mature and that there is no problem to they see mature content.
Applauses to your huge post, and more applauses to what you said, not just about people's opinion, but trying to help NG too. You really act like a staff, and in my opinion you're already a staff, keep doing this great job man!

Cyberdevil 2013-11-19 11:30:48

Well that's true, but that'd be the the responsibility of users rather than the staff, so for users it wouldn't make much a difference, but it'd be a security measure for the staff as much for age as for liability if a minor stumbles upon said content. The restriction would also serve the purpose that non-registered users wouldn't be able to view the content without an account, meaning the victims or other easily-offended people shouldn't be able to be offended in the first place. If they intentionally sign-up just to view a submission they know will offend them, I don't see that their will to have the submission removed will have the same impact.

Thanks man, and I hope other people too find my opinions either inspiring or useful! I don't like the way it seems the community is headed right now, better voice my opinions when they're relevant. :/

chris-the-stick 2013-11-19 13:03:20

VERY nice post, and let it be known that we were enemies in the past.

i like the suggestions that you do to help newgrounds to become the better of both worlds:
-not sued by everyone, but also not
-cencored by EVERYONE.

i really do like that you have nice suggestions and solid arguments for this, and i think that you should really be inside the NG stuff like elias here already said.

also, i've read the debate in the thread Tom did, a few hours ago, and i must say, that like you, i ALSO was ''entertaining the thought of posting some fierce response'' , but thankfully, i did not let my intentions to get the best of me.
i posted a civilised and kind responce, and i offered my point of view into the subject.

i also like that you post with your heart, and not with simple words, like the insensitive 6-year olds that posted in Toms thread, saying ''this is wrong, noone cares about those people and their tragedy!'' i seriously hated those people.
but i digress. the point is, no matter if Toms action was right or wrong (in my opinion it was right, and if you see the game, you will understand why), the bottom line is one:

WE-MUST-FIND-A-SOLUTION FOR FUTURE PROBLEMS LIKE THIS.

thankfully, you've posted a few suggestions, and i might review them, if you like.

first, the
''1.) The media identifies content submitted to NG as content that Tom has allowed to be submitted.'

haha, funny, when i first came in this site, i thought that too. i thought that Tom did all the games, and all the flash movies, even if it seemed impossible.
then, i grew up, and i got it, that this was a user-based community, and that not everything was made by tom.

so, i dont know, shouldnt the media get it too? or they are too retarded?

in case that they are too retarded to get this, THIS is a good solution:
- An angled presentation of NewGrounds as a first and foremost user-driven community.
- Separate page for DCMA take-down requests and other inquiries that aren't directly linked to any specific person.

while this is a horrible solution that will distance the people from NG even further, if anything:
- Automated messages and/or secretary to further distance the site from it's image as a home-based organization.

CONTINUES ON POST 2

Cyberdevil 2013-11-19 13:03:20

Thanks man. Must've been a distant past. :)

That's definitely how I hope the community can stay, or rather how it can become once again. There shouldn't be reason for anyone to sue NG over this though... no illegal material as far as I know.

Yeah, it's easy to get carried away in the heat of the moment! I'm actually typing in a few topic responses now, though hopefully not too fierce ones... that's the way to go about it, kind and civilized!

I was honestly getting more annoyed at some of the "You made the right choice" comments that don't seem to serve a purpose, by people who don't care to delve into the topic and form an opinion of their own. Well I guess all opinions do count and do serve a purpose, but I feel like a lot of users are not getting the big picture at all...

I doubt playing the game would change my mind, I stand strong in my opinion that no matter how offending a submission is, it shouldn't be removed unless it's directly illegal or malicious. I may not like it (I probably wouldn't, which is why I haven't played it ), but I respect the author's freedom to express themselves. It doesn't even have to have a point (therer are plenty of random comedies that follow such fashion), it just needs to be accepted by the community as a majority (I believe that's what the judgment process is for) and those who don't like it don't need to view it. It's a free world. The media is really the villain in this case, but they shouldn't be able to dictate how we live our lives. Anyway, onto the solutions, definitely the most important part...

Well at a glance I guess that's the way it seems to anyone who just stumbles upon the site. I spent so much time on the site it feels like it's obvious it's not. :) I guess a few things that could be changed would be: get rid of the TomFulp name/avatar on the frontpage, change the staff page to include official unpersonal contact info first.... a better introduction to users without accounts...

chris-the-stick 2013-11-19 13:18:25

CONTINUING FROM POST 1

so, this solution would further distance not only the media from tom, but also from the casual users, and that would be bad, because people like that tom has a home-based operation, and a small(?), but tightly bonded community in it.

so, no. we MUST keep the nice familiar vibe this site has, and to not add:
- Automated messages and/or secretary to further distance the site from it's image as a home-based organization
never. ever.

it will alienate the people, and it will drive more people away than anything.
it will do more harm than good.

anyway, as for the other point you're making,
on the problem of people cutting off our site's funding, i must say:
we could add a ''forbidden'' section in the site for stuff (much like teh ''BASTARDS'' section, that i really remember! much nostalgia on this one)
and put the blame on the users, like: ''the staff and Tom really find those movies/games horrible and tasteless, but as a site with freedom of speech and with lots of user-based content in it, these submissions are still allowed to hold their ground.''
(like you said)

an other suggestion would be for Tom to make a game like farmville, and to play it for free, but you must have to pay if you want more game-coins/upgrades in your character/equipment.
W-O-W, farmville, and mafiawars are just a few games that made their owners rich became of the pay-to-win type of thing. and they are popular. maybe Tom and the gang should try their hand at making such a game, maybe a browser-game, or a MMORPG.
dunno.

also donations from individuals could work, like the one with the ''supporter'' badge.

uhhh, as for the ''forbidden'' movies/games, again... i mighjt have an idea.
after the hype/anger/interest about this game has died out, maybe the staff could add it in ''the secrets'' section in the account.
(i think tom removed all the old, ''forbidden'' movies from this one too. sad)

i really dont know what the solution might be, but be certain of this cyberdevil:
tom would NEVER sell out his ideals/honor for anything.
he will back up this site, and he will stand and fight for its freedom. mark my words.

the only thing we have to do, is to fight back as well, and to support him in his difficult path through real-life problems.

ps. check out my nice review on your ''pollitically correct art'' drawing.
its OK.

Cyberdevil 2013-11-19 13:18:25

Yeah, that's true. It'd be good if there was a way to do both, to keep the site personal whilst making the media aware that it is in fact not.

As for secretary/automated messages, the main purpose that would serve would be to give potential media contacts/advertisers/etc a professional impression, not the end-user. Contacting staff through the PM system would still be a possibility for those with an account IOW the regular user. I'm assuming the representatives who seek to portray NG in a bitter light won't be signed up and active.

A Forbidden section hmm.. That's definitely a viable idea! At the same time as it'd keep the blame away from admins, it'd surely lure in those users who seek specifically this controversial content. Whether the admins like it or not, it'd be a great marketing tactic, a section users are intentionally told to keep away from will just lure in more.

Castle Crashes online maybe? Using an already existing brand should make it even easier. If they're up for it, it'd definately be plausible. Might be tough to match the competition initially, but then again plenty of online games have managed to find their niche even without a community like NG to back it up/advertise it, so it should definitely be possible. Wonder if they'd bite though...

Yeah, donations would be a bigger resort to wealth than they seem to admit, there are plenty of much smaller groups making a living entirely off of donations. I guess it'd be against principle, but as a backup solution: great.

I thought about the secrets too, but I guess the previous content was removed for a reason. Maybe press found out and were inquiring about them... who knows. If that's not the case, I hope they return, and much more with them.

In this case, it seems like his ideals are clashing with the freedom of this site. Maybe he's taking this thing too personal, maybe he's taking it too much as a parent, maybe he's concerned about financing, maybe unsure of where NGs strength lies, maybe a combination of all these factors or something I'm not aware of... but I don't doubt that he cares greatly about this place. That's been clear since the beginning! I only hope he doesn't sacrifice freedom of expression in favor of something less beneficial.

KillerSkull 2013-11-19 13:41:27

Waffles! :3

Cyberdevil 2013-11-19 13:41:27

Cake pans! :O

Doomroar 2013-11-19 17:34:32

You can easily find the game on Pigpen's page, is not really that horrible, but that may be just me.
I don't wan't to repeat my self but i actually went and defended the game on the very page of those scum "journalist".

http://www.wtnh.com/news/fairfield-cty/video-game-reenacts-tragedy-at-sandy-hook#

The sad thing is that there are also quite ignorant opinions here on NG which i had to correct

http://www.newgrounds.com/dump/item/e4c7cffbf5ae8cb591828f1324d347b5

------------------------
1)
Now to your proposals, again they are not fool proof, even with those countermeasures Tom still will had to intervene, sure his ego and involvement will be reduced, but it lies ultimately with him, as the attacks will be addressed to him for allowing the game to be hosted here. Is indeed really, really unfair, but that is how those schemes work, other wise they wouldn't have the power to force Tom into action.
2)
As for the advertisement, most is from horrendous glitched virus plagued games with little or no values at all, if they see any excuse they will withdraw to ask for understatement out of them is nor quite realistic sorry but it just happens that way.

- Re-implementation of the Bastards! still puts the blame on the administration because they allow the content to remain trough inaction, and most companies wouldn't want to trade with such a policy.
- We already have the found and the page is still on need of advertisement precisely because most of them have withdraw away from NG over the years.
- Mostly porn, but do we really want that Adversticement here, hell not even Shadman had luck with that, and that was before his pages decided to explode into a sea of dick-women, you can ask him, it seems is not that easy at all to find the support.
- I have no say in this one, as i lack the knowledge to impart an opinion, it may even work!
- Now this can be great, it also integrates the store and promotes the artist content, promotes people to create, to use the page, and keeps NG alive, it seems like the best option of them all great idea good sir!

3) preventing offending content to offend: impossible people will be offended regardless.
And let me tell you the video on that piece of shit of a news channel which link i already posted, has the game as A for adult, rated, so age-restriction did nothing.

Cyberdevil 2013-11-19 17:34:32

Yeah, I found a few links in the topic too. Rustygames is hosting it as well, along with SWFCabin/Chan. Brave souls. :) I'd host it too, just to set an example... but unfortunately I'm on a shared host that explicitly forbids disturbing things. Webhosting on a personal level is a limited venture...

I saw your post too btw; I've pretty much skimmed through everything written so far, the first 22 pages. :) Expecting a bit of catching up to do tomorrow morning...

Good going correcting the news! The masses never do get the correct picture of events like this, even though News 8 were surprisingly willing to not post a link to this site, or the game... well onto suggestion corrections:

-----------

Yeah, not foolproof, but it'd be a start! There are probably better ways but I can't really think of anything right now...

Huh? Withdraw to ask for understatement? Maybe some typo there...?

I remember back in the day NG had plenty of hentai ads, back when popularity was peaking, maybe bringing some of those back would be an option... I visit plenty of controversial sites on my ventures online, and most of them are backed (at least partially) by advertising (and not just porn ads). It shouldn't be so hard. I understand the major players like Google quickly abandon anything that could potentially damage their reputation, but not everyone cares as much about their reputation, and not everyone has a reputation to protext. There are hundreds of ad-networks out there; I find it hard to believe they'd all fall victim to the media. Some sites turn media attention to their benefit, it's all about how material is presented and what statements a site makes.

- Hmm, maybe I'm seeing things a bit too optimistically...
- I meant funds derived from user-based donations. Picture this: a donation drive in which 10,000 NG users pitch in $10 each, that'd be $100,000, a sum that should last the site for quite a will in a crisis!
- With this statement, I'm thinking mostly of optimistic start-up companies that want to reach out with an innovative idea that the world might find controversial, like Flattr, Bitcoin, GOG, etc... porn is of course an option. That seems like a last resort though, and considering the intended audience (everyone) of this site that may be taking it a bit too far...
- Considering a five dollar investment turned into a few million for one fortunate student... it may indeed. :) Maybe not such huge profit, but with an investment at the right time it seems like a more viable option than gambling with shares and such.
- :)

Well at least one of the options may hold some potential! :) Even if all these potential solutions don't completely take care of the problem, they'd all help, though. Hopefully someone will think of a miracle instant solve-it-all fix for this dilemma. As for #3, an absolute fix is impossible, but the harder it is to access the content for people who shouldn't be accessing it... the better. Such a restriction should do more good than harm, maybe keep less important content off the radar, and it'd at least give the impression that the staff are doing their best to keep affected parties out of harms way.

Doomroar 2013-11-19 18:31:18

Part 2 (late part 2... oh well)

I would love it if PsychoGoldfish was right, but sadly Tom itself, probably on a moment of weakness slipped and allowed us to see, that money is playing quite a relevant role here, if it was just a parent helping another this would be easier to manage, if the media was more mature, this would be easier to handle, if Newgrounds had the same user base and creators as it once had this would be easier to hold, but none of those was the case, not to say that Tom was not really sympathizing with the families, but the bitching of the media had a really big role here, and that is what is distorting all this.

Then we got that discourse on the 2 Newgrounds and... i really felt sad, i don't want to believe that there is no way to keep the 2 faces, but we have to understand, the 1st one already abandoned Newgrounds and went to a life on YouTube, they may not even make content anymore, and even if they come back their production may be sub-par, are we really going to risk it for a thing as unstable as that? the there is the 2nd face which is even more unstable and unpredictable, it makes it all seem like a path without exit.

Cyberdevil 2013-11-19 18:31:18

Agreed, as I mentioned in the topic I believe the content creators who left for YT will stick to YT even if this site is made more family-friendly, but if this place becomes more family-friendly, it will loose a big part of it's appeal (which is the same as its personality) . YT provides the larger audience, and has the financing to keep users with them (for user-based ad-revenue, for example)... and the one thing that NG boasts that none of these other large communities do is: freedom of expression!

It's the one big sales pitch of this site! I wish it'd be used more passionately, and I'm sure users would stream in, because after all, to be a part of a community online where you have such artistic freedom is incredibly rare; I believe it's something serious artists want. It's just a matter of letting users filter out the content they don't want to see I guess, which again puts the Portal in the sideline... which again is a form of censorship. :/ I don't know...

Doomroar 2013-11-19 18:48:42

(New comment regarding your answer to my part 1)

No is not a typo, ok is missing a period... and the nor is really a not

"Again, how advertising companies interpret NG should have a big impact on their forgiveness for certain submissions and willingness to partner with the site"
With the context, it actually reads:

If they see any excuse they will withdraw. To ask for understatement out of them is not quite realistic sorry but it just happens that way.

Well the Fund can be seem as a save for emergencies, but we will need to get the whole community, or most of it, and well not everyone has a digital wallet, or credit card, for example S3C, well that is not really an excuse he can ask someone to make the transaction for him, and then he pays that person, like what i once had to do with my parents, well at least i had, don't know how it was for others, my money their card... kinda unfair i mean they already skip my birthday lumping it with Christmas now they do that, well at least i didn't have to pay memberships or monthly fees... man maybe it was for the best, damn do i hate banks, i should go back to that system. Where was i? a right the fund, well it seems like i just answered my own counterpoint but what about people who don't have some one else to ask such a thing? well you may argue those are really a minority that shouldn't affect the fund, and now we may see quite a solid plan, which biggest wall is the willingness of the users to participate in the creation of the fund.

Well yeah sex sells, but it also moves, and it may push NG into quite a different direction... is a lot of risk actually, and even those ads had their standards, i gave you an example, another one is Rule 34 who also had an slump on advertisements back in the day, when my hormones were in their most active, so i was able to notice that along the post of their problems *uhum clears throat* (mom please don't read this)

Indeed every single one of them implemented in mass may give some assurance, but some are too vulnerable, i liked the last one more, because not only promoted the creation, use and brought some money inside, but it also reactivated the flow of visitors to the page, and i guess that is what may in the end really help the most, once we have the numbers the Advertisers will sell themselves like whores on a plate, the problem is to make the new users to fit into NG.

Cyberdevil 2013-11-19 18:48:42

Hmm, to ask for 'the presentation of something as being smaller or less good or important than it really is' out of them? Not trying to be a grammar nazi or anything but I didn't get that at all when I read it before, probably tired. I guess you mean you can't count on advertisers? Yeah, that's true, but there are so many of them there are bound to be some visionaries amongst the main stream. And look at Tumblr, they have so much controversial content, but the press isn't hounding them. It's all about how the statement is made...

There are almost five million registered accounts here. I don't know how many of those are actually active; how many aren't ALTs; how many would be dedicated to the cause, but imagine sending out a cry for help via email, to five million emails. Even if less than 1% adhere to the call, and donate just $10 each, that'd be $500,000! I wasn't thinking of using email, but in a worst case scenario that'd be the easiest way to reach a much larger chunk of inactive users. I have no doubt plenty of people would be willing to contribute more though, or do so on a regular basis. Just think of sites like Wikipedia, with huge server farms and lots of staff, running entirely based off donations. No ads at all.

They lump your birthday with Christmas? How close is it? That sounds rather unfair... though my mothers sister actually has her birthday the 24th so for her there's no escaping it... must suck a bit... but yeah, as for payment alternatives, if there is a will there is a way. Most of the userbase probably has a way to contribute (through other people like you mention), and this place is all about collaboration so nearby users could help each other out too. I remember back when I started with webhosting I didn't have a card either so I paid via my parents.

What's wrong with banks though? PayPal actually has higher transaction fees than most banks... and they're the provider everyone uses for online payments. Unfair world!

Yeah, and if the site stands for its users, I believe the users will stand for the site. This whole place is like a big family, I'm proud to be a Supporter, and that costs $25/person so just imagine what that x just a thousand loyal users would amount to... I'm glad NG isn't turning to donations as long as they don't need it though, but if they do stand their ground and ask users to back them when the ground crumbles beneath their feet... I believe the users will keep this place grounded; locked in; away from mainstream greed and corruption! A reef that rises above the waves as a visionary, refusing to drown!

Well then, now that the site is finally back up again.. time to check out that censorship topic...

VicariousE 2013-11-19 23:59:59

Did you play the game before it was taken down? I played it UJ, and gave it a 3 or 4... just can't remember if there were medals. Hope I didn't lose any >:(

Cyberdevil 2013-11-19 23:59:59

The name didn't ring a bell when I heard it so I must've missed it. When I first read the Censorship post I didn't get what it was about at all, had to read through some posts to understand that it was about a signle game. My first impression was that censorship was going to be part ot the site policy from now on, and all offensive material taken down... nightmare scenario! :C

tailsbuddy 2013-11-20 20:47:00

(WOW, such a looong entry)
Just hope my medals don't get deleted :(

Cyberdevil 2013-11-20 20:47:00 (Updated 2013-11-21 11:04:27)

The medals for this game are already deleted AFAIK. :/

Or maybe not? Someone correct me if I'm wrong...

Doomroar 2013-11-20 21:21:36

Well i for one would appreciate if i could filter some things, too much penises on this page.
But i do think it could be possible to do, instead of just missing all the A rated uploads.

I can't find your quote, but my point is that they wouldn't bother into taking the time to understand that this virtual place respects the rights of its users, and that they can express themselves freely here, if they see that whatever is going on can be linked to them, and create any type of bad image, they will just bail out of the deal, and stop doing their business with NG. Which is unbelievable, for real, how much face can they lose if their product is a shame on itself? on the contrary doing business with such a noble page should give them more prestige, even if the page is filled with distasteful, offensive, vulgar, controversial and plain ugly content.

Oh wait, now i think i see why they would pull out, regardless it's freedom, even if is ugly. So yeah ad companies are quite a bunch of hoes, they just want numbers, and go with whatever can give them the numbers, and that plays directly with what the majority find socially acceptable.

So there you go that is, you grammar Nazi! hahaha.

Ok now to Tumblr, there is censorship there, but what happens, necrophilia, bestiality, and smut, and all which is controversial, gets deleted without making any fuss, is all underhanded, and is all passed quietly, so it is there but no one is public about it, and the admins aren't really that good at keeping track of it all, so a lot pass them by, so if it comes to them they will delete it, and that was before yahoo acquired Tumblr, now with all the more reason.

On the other hand we here are proud of our "darkness", and are open about it, and if it gets our we deal with it openly, that is great but inconvenient. To explain it better, Tumblr is like YT, but they don't actively seek to delete things, they wait until the notice happens, they are less preventive, while still making it clear that they don't allow it.

Ah wikipedia, i have no idea how they do it, is a wonder really, maybe humans are not as bad as i think they are. Indeed it all comes to a will to do it, there are plenty of ways out side of the ones i mentioned.

Cyberdevil 2013-11-20 21:21:36 (Updated 2013-11-21 11:20:28)

There's not a single one on this page though. :P Yeah, there should be a way, maybe with the use of tags and categories, maybe with a more advanced search algorithm and 'like' system that when combined, can filter out results that users find disturbing based on previously disliked pieces (if they want to use such a system, that is... should of course be optional). At the same time I'm against having personalized results so....

My quote? I copied in the definition for understatement... maybe you mean that? Yeah, that's true. If NG personally contacts them and informs them of what this site stands for and how it works, I wonder if they would reconsider though. Just watched the movie The Greatest Movie Ever Sold (a documentary movie about brand placement, which is completely funded by brand placement, in a very transparent way) and though many brands/advertisers refused to even consider having their business models exposed, some did jump aboard and managed to find a movie worth 1,5 million dollars. So when it comes to NG, maybe some would weigh the pros against the cons and give the site a chance. There are so many different brands; so many potential advertisers. True, if they really believe in their brand, there should be no reason to bail out. Bravery might even be rewarded by a more loyal base of customers.

Hehe, yeah I get your point, thanks. :)

I'd think such content on Tumblr only gets deleted if it's illegal (even if it doesn't seem illegal, it could be the content authors are not content owners), because they've explicitly stated that they even allow porn on their service, such adult content is simply filtered out of search results and harder to find (after the Yahoo! buy). If an author fails to label his Tumblr as adult (and thus have it filtered from search) he'll be breaking a rule and may thus have it deleted. Or is there more that I don't know about going on behind the scenes? I've never had any personal experiences with Tumblr deleting content, nor of anyone I know... yeah, probably a lot of undiscovered stuff too...

True, but Tumblr differs a bit from both YT and NG in how each piece of content is rather passive, there isn't a page for it, there's not a rating/comment system with user credentials and other info. All content is just part of a much bigger stream of content, which makes it easy to have it re-posted, modified, re-posted again, it's like a cycle of ideas rather than a finished publication. So even if something is deleted it doesn't have the same permanent effect.

A wonderful mystery! :) I actually donated $2 once, as they say every river small...

Doomroar 2013-11-20 21:41:26

(Continuation because i had to made an explanation on the 1st part, have you considered joining the Grammar Commanism?)

Well mine is on 10 dec, but they stretch it all the way to the 24...
I actually don't like PayPal, at all, and they only way to get a good deal with a bank is if they invite you first, and even then you have to check for a catch. Unfair world indeed, capitalism is the source of all these problems ultimately, including this censorship.

You know, i also think that if NG asked for donations that i would survive just fine, but in the end is Tom's page, would he be fine with it? i mean there is his ego after all to see that his page ended with such a device for survival may hurt him, because business that is, this is a really ugly and disgusting way of looking at things, and is not true is not like it is begging for money (i can already see the comments haha), is not like is wrong, and i actually like it, but would he like it? would it be biable, to make this really something by everyone supported by everyone, beyond just Tom's page? because it makes sense this is not just Tom's page, granted in the end it is his page, but in essence is not, so when the media assault him for things regarding NG, they are both right and wrong.

So with such a thing like an all out fund, can NG graduate itself from its dad? and if it does, how would that work for the artist which make their work here, they still have to profit? and the advertisement problem reminds, is not like we can make funds just for them, and even less realistic is the problem of then making them search for their own individual sponsor, that would be way harsher than how things actually stand, it can be done, but in the end both, we, the creators and the users, the community of NG will end suffering, if such a thing happens.

So NG can survive with the fund, but i think we forgot that the artist also use ads to create an income, if we look it like this the problem grows exponentially, and i can see, even if it was ethically wrong to censor, it was still right because the danger was there, it was a sacrifice. I indeed can't judge him. Capitalism is horrible man, it makes all these things to surface, on the other hand we really don't have access to another system outside theory to see how things would have played out, but enough of this i am not studying politics or sociology.

Cyberdevil 2013-11-20 21:41:26

The what? Is that an NG club/crew?

Oh, so it's like two weeks full of celebration? :P That would be pretty cool, an entire holiday dedicated to yourself... I'm glad my birthday is in the middle of summer though (July 10), it's not just my favorite season (maybe you like the season you were born in automatically... how does that theory hold with you?) it's also as far away from Christmas as it can get. :)

Sounds like signing up for a bank account is a rather difficult process in your part of the world? Here most main banks have an automated setup on their website, you can submit an application in a couple of minutes and have it validated in a day or two. For some services, you may need to actually walk into an office or send in some signed document, but for normal functionality (sending/receiving/withdrawing money) it's a piece of cake. Some offer free credit cards, others free e-legitimation services, others free coaches, etc... the competition has made all rents go incredibly low, but otherwise they're all about providing a better service than the next bank!

True, society needs a major reform, but nobody has the guts or power to make it happen.

I get what you're getting at, this place means so much for so many people, it goes way further than a personal site... but maybe by letting others fund it, he'd feel like he's handing over his creation to the masses... I don't know, maybe he has other plans for this place; doesn't want to put anything on the line right now... maybe he just sympathizes with the parents (as a parent) so much that all of this is irrelevant... maybe he just doesn't want change (but that'd be kind of a paradox). I know he's being incredibly open about all of this but at the end we really don't know anything...

Yeah, ad-revenue for users, that's working well the way it is... would be great with more revenue, but using funds for such a purpose probably wouldn't sit well with everyone. I know I wouldn't like my money being funneled through to artists I may not like rather than necessary operational costs.. wonder if the staff have already pondered these ideas.

Considering NG hasn't received any new advertisers since the last riot, it seems like it's time to start looking around again... I wonder, if they did have the resources to keep this place running with bad media coverage, would Tom still have removed the game for other reasons... I do respect the decision, but I can't agree with it. In my mind it's still just wrong, if you live by a code you should go all the way, even if it doesn't go well. I'm probably unnecessarily stubborn, but hmm, yeah, I don't know what else to say...

Doomroar 2013-11-20 21:42:51

You should make an update on the post and inform us how is that the censorship topic is going, because i really can't catch up now.

Cyberdevil 2013-11-20 21:42:51

When I caught up yesterday (upto page 27 I think) there was really no news... liljim linked to a report showing that Google is actually not profiting at all from YT, which gives some hope as to the potentials of NG... but as for the current dilemma, not a single admin post; no solutions... though there's always the inspiring read amidst the mix of aimless bashing, and plenty of old users with extremely high levels popping up out of nowhere to share their two cents on that matter, which are always extra interesting to read considering they've been here so long.

Also noticed that at least two posts have been deleted (since one of my posts had moved two posts back). Censorship? O_o

VicariousE 2013-11-21 00:45:25

I added some good and pertinent links... I usually just leave it at that, since usually the discussion is misinformed from the beginning, or at least degenerates into misinformation.

Had Tom waited a few more hours before deleting it, it would have been just enough to have our name in the news articles about it... I guess they ran with what they had, which was mainly from the parents and author of the game, not who hosted it.

Cyberdevil 2013-11-21 00:45:25

Yeah, so much ranting, so little looking for a real viable solution... but it's good to see people care!

So it wasn't just out of consideration? Are you timing the time of deletion with the time of posting the news article, or was that actually mentioned in the topic somewhere btw?

Buujack 2013-11-21 05:53:56

whoa there boii, thats a lot of text.

Cyberdevil 2013-11-21 05:53:56

In case you didn't know, I like writing. :P Plus this is a topic I'm mad passionate about!!

VicariousE 2013-11-21 15:14:25

Nah, that was just me guessing what would've been a better PR move... but in the end, Tom did the right thing at the right time. The press are vultures to those who don't control them, which in our case, is the corporations and Washington.

Cyberdevil 2013-11-21 15:14:25

Ah, K. Yeah, for the PR it definitely seems like the right choice, for everything else however...

Zachary 2013-11-21 15:17:41

Someone stated below that Newgrounds was mentioned in the news because of this... but I haven't seen any examples of Newgrounds named in any of the news articles that I have seen.

Got any links?

Cyberdevil 2013-11-21 15:17:41

@Elitistinen ?

Zachary 2013-11-21 15:19:56

Also, claiming that there is censorship because posts were moved is asinine. If you want to know what happened, someone posted a picture of a closeup of an asshole. If you want that in the thread, then I probably should have left it.

I honestly thought you were above that, but I guess I was mistaken.

Cyberdevil 2013-11-21 15:19:56 (Updated 2013-11-21 15:29:21)

That part of the comment was meant as a pun, no need to get so wound up about it. Definitely don't want to see assholes in the topic... good knowing (and as for that other removed post... any idea?).

Been looking through the topic btw, and sure Derelex was getting a bit out of control but you've got to admit you're throwing around a lot of harsh words without reason, just fueling the fire, his first post was actually pretty inspiring but after that it's a whole lot of bashing...

Zachary 2013-11-21 15:36:29

The thing is, it is meant to be a pun, but you spreading misinformation. People on here will take it literally, and they will use it in their argument.

Also, the other removed post was the same guy asking why he got banned on an alt. If I insulted you, those weren't my intentions, but this whole situation and seeing some of the things that users are falsely accusing Tom of is frustrating.

Cyberdevil 2013-11-21 15:36:29

Didn't know my newspost was such a source of reliable information. :) Everything I write is angled in some way; most of it's my personal opinion after all, which is why I'm keeping most of it on my userpage rather than engaging in public debate... point taken though, gotta be careful of what you say on the interwebs. o_O

Good knowing! No problem, and that's understandable. Letting emotion take control really takes the power out of an argument though, so many points are lost in the flame wars. Considering the Dun Dun Dun comment maybe Tom's not taking all this hate to heart though... hope so, keeping the game would've been a hit to his ego, but it seems like this is really no different...

Whirlguy 2013-11-21 15:59:27

I share your passion for this website. Tom's latest news posts have been pretty depressing. Saying NG isn't what it used to be seems overly dramatic, but I'm pretty sure those announcements were bad news to all of us. I never read the whole censorship thread like you did, but I did read every comment on this page right here and I must say it really inspires me to deal with the problems of tomorrow. Everyone's ideas are great and I hope Tom will get to see them. Also, I think someone should make a documentary about newgrounds so as to provide insight to the rest of the world. It's got a rich history, so I'm sure it's worth watching. Not to mention it would attract new users.

Cyberdevil 2013-11-21 15:59:27 (Updated 2013-11-21 16:34:21)

Well it's true NG will never be what it used to be, it's constantly evolving (and occasionally de-evolving... like with these damn drop-down menus), but I wish the approach on freedom of expression was something they took a firmer stance for. It's one of the fundamental values of this place, what makes it stand out, and though this surely won't be the end of the site (might even be what saves it) it's giving all kinds of wrong impressions... of weakness, of instability, of irrationality, of unreliability, of discrimination... maybe keeping the game up wasn't the right choice, but what happens the next time a game like this is submitted? The problems of the future today... hope they prepare for it!

That's still a lot of reading! :O You're probably getting a bit of a one-sided view on the discussion from just these comments but then again catching up on the latest 900 posts in the official topic would be an immense task. :) Pretty incredibly how engaged everyone is in the matter, looks like it'll outgrow the redesign topic before morning...

Definitely, an NG documentary would be awesome! I remember something like that was up on Kickstarter a while (maybe a few years) ago but I'm not sure it ever received funding... right now it'd be more relevant than ever though. If anything it could open the eyes of the world to the truths of this place. Also as you say great marketing effect.

Zachary 2013-11-21 16:00:16

While I agree emotion can take control, it does not automatically make an argument false. Trust me, I am still rational in my approach, no matter my emotional state :)

Cyberdevil 2013-11-21 16:00:16

True; I'll take your word for it. :)

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