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Bamboo Shoots!

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5y 9m 29d

It's Not Summer!

Posted by Cyberdevil - 1 month ago

So I guess vacation time's over?

Looks like the long promised rating update rolled out during my latest leave. The new rating icon size seems aimed way more at mobile than stationary, and of course I miss the old Pico icons, but otherwise: pretty cool. Instant, easy to edit, and those overhauled eulogies too! :D

Seems some recent masterpieces were kicked out of the All-Time Toplists with the removal of anonymous data though, with more-reviewed content taking precedence over high-scoring such, with some very well-deserving ones like this and this no longer on the Best Of at all. I wonder if the system really will bring these back to a more deserved place in time, or if there's just no way to measure up to the massive review amounts some submissions conjured back in the day, and these more recent greats just suddenly lost a gargantuan previously guaranteed slice of future audience gained just by topping that list... but maybe this change will really get people reviewing again? Hope so! And old favorites getting some light again is not bad!

Anyway I'm out of level ups so I'll just conclude this random latest update ramble like this: I'm back! Time to catch up again...


Comments (15)

Welcome back! So now we may choose new top entries of all time. This is great.

Thank you! Well we've always chosen the top ones, but now since the reviews from a time when users reviewed so much more than they do today count over the anonymous votes that amounted since... if you look at the 'Best of All Time' in the Portal for example it seems there are only submissions from ca 2007-2010 there. I just wonder if newer submissions will ever have a chance to reach the same amounts of reviews as submissions did during that pinnacle of user activity, and especially since those old submissions now have the spotlight and will get new views, and votes, whereas newer submissions will only really get a momentary fame via the frontpage, P-Bot posts and followers.

Would be cool if this really boosts user activity though, and gets people digging for favorites instead of just going by the ones that are already there. But there really were a loooot more people here back in the day... will be difficult to measure up to their activity...

Yay! I agree with you about how some good stuff has probably been tossed in the back, but I think this has also given some more recent stuff a chance (specifically post-2015) because it now has more votes than some older stuff. I think changing things up is okay, because it gives the new stuff a chance to shine. Anyways, cool that you're back. Bummer you mIssed Madness Day and Double XP Saturday though.

Woo! That's true, though at the same time content with a larger amount of reviews (anything ca 2007-2009) seems to take precedence over everything else, and new stuff measuring up will be difficult unless activity really rises too... though if it's still based on score I wonder why some so very high-scoring (with high review scores too) submissions were pushed away.... the merge really seems to have shifted things around... either way pretty hyped to see what happens. :) If there is some kind of barrier with old review scores just being way more optimistic/impossible to overcome for newer submissions: I hope they kept that earlier vote data just in case...

Yeah I really hope there'll be more of those! :D And suddenly it's possible to get an uneven EXP amount too. Could maybe settle in at 66,666...

@Thereviewtrickster @Cyberdevil yeah, but since I started on a five, I can only get odd numbers. Bummer.

Hmm yeah... can you still do something about that, I wonder? No idea if the extra newsletter EXP works retrospectively or no...

Ayyy i missed you

Ayyy I missed y'all too! Though wasn't a very consistent traditional two-month hiatus this year...

Welcome back! Hope you had a great time, yet again!

Thanks man! :) Had plenty of Kairos time, but guess it's all back to Chronos now... lotsa rain/lotsa reading, but some fine, cool, clear-skied sunny autumn days too. Appreciative details all shift with the seasons.

Vacation is over, and now it's time for rain in your nation, enough to drain an ocean. Time to grab the weather vanes and woven scarves to survive this frozen arctic. Winter is on the horizon, time to strap ourselves in for some crazy moments, yet we keep on dancing like the Bay City Rollers, until these shitty days are over. Yeah...

Away with the radio nation - when the rain is full of nano tech, relaying the radio rations - so static is all we have that is left! And satellites track our location. Would be good with a Batman to have on this set - to crack down on criminal commerce and step on the bombers and maybe they'd have some respect for our personal dept.

As always the frozen winter clobbers, but minimal Swedes. Mostly bins full of seals. They get pinned there somewhere in the yonder where people are free and ponder not much of their in a Bob verse villainous deeds to finish their finite digits of meals, with binges of mead as they sled down their sleeves to the entrance of Eden.

Yupp the winter's a beating but I'll keep breathing, knee deep in demons, dreaming of leaving for the wonder of summer when winter is seasoned with abundance of sun, and of warmth, and of reason. Cynical, clinical treason. As if the snow was gold not grim: melt it down and we'd roll as kings. Yeah...

Welcome back, my dude. :)

Many thanks, my man! :)

Heey, your back! ^_^ Hope you had a good time! I've not been here much lately, been occupied with other matters. But, I AM working on a new animation, slowly. :D Not had time to do squat on Newgrounds. Eventually, I hope to somewhat catch up. And, sorry I've not gotten back to your messages. Not sure IF I'll find time at this point. But, I read them all, fascinating fun stuff, so appreciated!

Noticed some changes were made when I left a review on a video today. Interesting. Sometimes, I just like to say something is awesome or make a joke... now, before I post, I'm threatened to have to leave a level-headed REASON why I think something is awesome or my comment might be removed? Bummer. Sounds like authoritarian SJW stuff to me. :P

I like that helpful reviews are encouraged, but to THREATEN people on how they have to reply by saying if their comment is not up-to-snuff it may be removed... is questionable power-tripping IMO. It is essentially encouraging self-censorship due to fear of repercussion (removal of comment/review). And, I think that it will ultimately cut down on people wanting to comment at all. It will cut down on community banter. I know it squashes my enthusiasm down to ziltch. In other words, this is indirect censorship/suppression.

Hmmm.... gee, where are we seeing this TREND being played out lately? Top social networks on the internet? Big Tech? "As above, so below." So many faces of tyranny... It's all about desiring power and control over others. Something to think about.

This really pisses me off actually, and I'm tired of it. I'm rethinking being here. I used to be on YouTube over four years ago, had a successful channel (with more than just animations), and left because of shit like this. Here I thought Newgrounds was a pretty cool place -- that I'd finally found a decent place after all these years to share my animations.

Yes I am! :D And yes it was! Thank you. No worries about message responses if or if not time allows, it's our most treasured currency after all. Looking forward to the new animation, and reminded I've yet to see your latest hmm... soon as surplus time allows!

Hmm the little message before the Submit button? It's just because some people have a tendency to not really consider what they write, I think, or the decency to be decent. :) The guidelines were simplified with the update a bit, as was everything else regarding the rate/review process, but they're still the same as before. In difference from before, though, there's now a message by the review form instead of just a link to the guidelines, which are and used to be a bit more brash.

Reviews here used to be much more elaborate, you know? We had separate ratings for different aspects of a submission, like audio, animation, effort, etc, and both a title and a summary for each review (with time removed, I think, because in part it was just too time-consuming, and in part difficult to apply to all different forms of content). With time reviews have turned more and more into comments rather than reviews, and mods are more accepting of how little and how irrelevant reviews can be - this probably an unintentional effect of our competition simplifying things even further, and making the whole review aspect uninterestingly complex for new users, but I think some of that culture lives on still. A want for constructive critique and feedback; professional responses. It's not a bad thing is it? :P It's still OK to post less if you like, long as it's encouraging in some way or form! Or if not encouraging: helpful. Basically.

I haven't really considered that bit of text as a threat though. Maybe you see it differently when you know what's accepted and not, and it's not as hard as it sounds (and so it doesn't sound so hard in the first place)... I hope most people don't see it the same way...

Well I really don't think NG are anything like those top dawgs. It's a message meant to help out the creators, and mods, and users too in that they now know what's not allowed and might not have to go through that naive WTH WHY'S MY REVIEW GONE stage many new users do, as bad reviews remain a problem. A lot of users simply ignore the rules anyway though, so maybe this is getting noticed by the wrong people: the regular ones, not those intent on doing harm, or ignorant enough to not care. If it does have an adverse affect I hope staff notice, and maybe rephrase it a bit. Are comment policies like this common on other sites though?

Really hope you don't leave just over this! :/ If your reviews start getting removed it'd be a different thing no? I really didn't expect this little thing could have such an impact. Just so we're not talking of different messages here, it is this one right: Scoring low? Please offer constructive feedback. Scoring high? Tell us what you loved and why! Cruel, offensive and/or unhelpful reviews will be removed and can result in a ban.

...IMHO it just says it like it is, and there's even a 'Please' in that first bit of it. Cruel, offensive and/or unhelpful reviews aren't good for anyone are they?

@TheBabbleBeast @Cyberdevil Hiyah!! :3 I hear you... And thanks for your incredibly thoughtful response. I guess that, as a creator, I don't like to be 'helped' along. But, that's just me.

"Scoring low? Please offer constructive feedback. Scoring high? Tell us what you loved and why! Cruel, offensive and/or unhelpful reviews will be removed and can result in a ban." Yes, that's the message.

There is a threat in there, yes. It's not exactly subtle. It's rubbed me the wrong way from the beginning -- especially that the 'unhelpful reviews' part can actually result in a ban. What's 'unhelpful'? That's rather subjective.

As for critiquing/reviews... it is a turn-off for some people. Being critiqued... it's not for everyone, that's for sure. I know for a fact that it bothers some people to have their work critiqued/reviewed. They love to show it, but that's about it.

This place is a bit like The Wild West. Some people thrive on that, some don't.

As for professionalism... maybe there could to be a button that a person can click that says 'please critique me'? Otherwise, people could just leave regular comments should they desire to? It's like that on DeviantArt. But, you do have to actually pay $ for the, um, 'privilege' of getting that little 'critique me' button.

Star system? I, personally, don't like it. A simple thumbs up is enough. Not even a 'thumbs down' is necessary because people would be able to tell how 'good' or 'bad' a work is by the number of overall thumbs up.

I have a friend on here and I hate having to 'fairly' rate their work just to be able to leave a comment on their work. I think ALL their stuff is worth 5 stars because I'm bias... but I do try to be, somewhat, fair... but it pains me. Actually, it pains me to leave anything short of 5 stars on anyone's work basically. If there was just a 'thumbs up', problem solved.

It's impossible for the star rating system to be fair. Who can expect average people to be fair? It's subjective, there is bias. There is also power-tripping because everyone's vote weighs differently thanks to the competitive nature of this site. And, some people with powerful votes are NOT nice people.

I didn't know that Newgrounds was even more strict once. Anyway, I'm glad it loosened up over the years somewhat lol. ;D

Well you do have a strong personality. ;) I guess we'll see if other people voice their disdain with this change too!

Hmm, well yes, I suppose it is... as much as I've been trained in the ins and outs of reviewing I suppose it's no longer such a subjective term for me. Would be better with encouragement rather than dissuasion I suppose? Maybe: "Scoring low? Please offer constructive feedback. Scoring high? Tell us what you loved and why! Creators appreciate a helpful, thoughtful and compassionate comment. Be sure to review the guidelines here. "

I mean I understand why they want users to think twice, to save on moderation time. and angry users that leave thoughtless reviews and won't understand why they were removed, but you're right. It could be better formed.

Hmm, that's an interesting idea! In a way the recent checkbox to 'not show your rating' works like that, in that a review without a rating becomes a comment, and so for the one leaving the comment there's a choice if they want to critique or not, but indeed there's no control for the creator. I think it'd be a bit of a problem giving the creator more control than the user, since the whole submission process (judgment, voting, awards) rely on users rating their work, and the author exposing themselves to their audience like this. Not as much in art and audio. At the same time that'd definitely be something a lot of authors appreciate... and then again, flipped around: if some authors don't want to be critiqued, and some do, how would user feedback work between them? Would users get banned for posting critique on someone who doesn't want critique? Would users rate submissions fairly regardless, or base their ratings upon if they're allowed to critique or not? Would some submissions be exempt from the judgment process? And if this process is simply abandoned and all submissions go through: what would be the state of the portal then, when freedom goes over quality? NG maintaining a stream of quality content where others do not, or at least leave the judgment process to the users rather than automatic algorithms (like YouTube) has always made this place more personal and community-driven... so if that was abandoned, what would happen? Would the place be flooded with crap, the servers overloaded; the site forced to shut down? In terms of content there's no way we can compete on grounds of amount, like YT does, but rather on always having a relevant showcase, where the userbase to a large extent decides what comes out on top. In a way, being able to disable ratings is already swaying this existing system though, so who knows how it might go from here. I'm not sure what I think, but the system that is has worked well so far, and I think users feel appreciated in that they are allowed the freedom of control, and to critique, and artists often appreciate ditto. When it works well it becomes an equal exchange of feedback and support. When it doesn't... it can go the wrong way. If users could choose not to get critique, too, what impression would the general userbase have of them, compared to the ones that do allow it? That they're not true artists? That they're unwilling to learn, and evolve, and improve? That they're not part of the community? Soooo many uncertainties here. XD But it's an interesting idea...

Hey we could market the review aspect a bit better here while it exists. :) What you have to pay for at DA is free on NG! If it was announced as a privilege I think more people might want to review, too. If people see it more as a right they can take advantage of, than work they do to support the community (as it sometimes feels like it is to me). Personally I love reviews. I love getting feedback. I love when I leave feedback and that feedback is acknowledged too. When I discover something about a submission the creator wanted to showcase that most people didn't get, or notice a flaw they agree with and want to fix, or just appreciate the encouragement. The feedback aspect, and artists that appreciate feedback, is one of the most fun community aspects of the site IMO. It brings creators and their fans closer together too.

But then we're moving onto 'like' culture, and the bane of professional critique. :/ IMHO FB did a horrible thing when they brought that in. They might have expanded upon their selection now, but the system's stuck, and become an online norm rather than something unique to FB culture. It's become a way for people to seek validation, and it becomes an obligation for anyone who decides to one time interact with someone to continually interact again, or that person will miss that validation. I basically see it as a drug, that you start using and can't stop with... and in part that's why I'm dubious about the new emoticon responses here. I like using them, but at the same time I feel like they're totally unnecessary, and a waste of time. It would be good on just newsposts (where a mood response works better than an official rating), but with both comments and reviews it's too much. I use them and appreciate them according to the validation they give, even though I don't really want to. And in a way I feel like a 'thumbs up' system is dishonest. There's more to life than just a spectrum of thumbs up. Other responses should be OK too. People should be able to speak their mind without offending someone if they have something to say that isn't entirely positive. The like culture's feeding that stigma, and has made people so sensitive to offending content that it's scary how self-censored some creators are becoming in response... on the flipside of course it's good to be positive. A thumbs up is a positive response. It's encouragement in it's simplest form, but I feel like oversimplification isn't the way to go either, and in this case it meddles with the potential for self improvement and mutual debate. That's not what NG is IMO, and not what the Internet should become either.

In a way you can tell how good or bad a work is simply by the amount of views it gets, thumbs up or no. The overall stars don't say as much, but rather reflect people's personal opinions. IMO personal opinions should matter. :) It's the community aspect again. The individual VS a system.

Hmm well I'll admit I have similar issues with some people. And when I don't give a high five to some good friends, because I honestly feel they could do better, and don't want to rate their work unfairly/differently than I do everyone else's, then it feels a bit like I've betrayed them too... so either I do the dishonest thing and do go for a high five, or a little higher rating than I'd give someone else, or I try to be honest anyway... of course our reviews will always have some bias though, and I hope everyone understand that. A rating's always subjective, but it's your own rating so you shouldn't feel like it reflects anything else than the rating you want to give, right? Bias or no. All boils down to what obligations take precedence, within and outside the NG world. Our obligation to help, or be friendly, or honest, or professional, or give a good impression?

But hey there's the option to review without a rating now, so maybe that'll solve this issue for you? ;) If that doesn't give the impression that you might've given a lower score than the top score, in which case why be anonymous hmm... always problems...

Haha yeah, it's definitely gotten better. :) I like where we're going, but I hope we don't lose our roots either, or change according to common practice elsewhere more so than: what's good for us. And what's good for the artist. Feedback is GOOD, right? I hope we don't become as mindless as some of those other places out there, strict or no... gotta find a good balance. I agree it's not all fair, but we are striving to be as fair as possible with how the system works. Compromises for old and for new users, and artists, and for the rest of community, and for profit (because otherwise therer'd be no community). Hopefully we're becoming better and better.

Btw sorry about this block of text! :| Didn't realize how gigantic this was becoming... characters almost running o

@TheBabbleBeast @Cyberdevil @Cyberdevil Hahaha I really got you going! It's good -- you really get into the smallest details, no stone unturned. Btw, I'm not going after you personally in case you have any concern... and I'm quite sure you know that. Somehow, I just felt compelled to share some of my thoughts with you. Because, yes, of course feedback overall is wonderful for me -- why do you think I enjoy interacting with you! No shortage of feedback from you! ;3 Still, I do not expect it, not from you or anyone. I was on forums long enough that I learned not to hold expectations. I learned to say my piece and let it go. Whatever happens after that is either a nice little gifted cherry on top or a poop flung into the fan. I've had so much of both... makes life ridiculously funny. =D

Here on Newgrounds though, it IMPOSSIBLE to have dialog on people's videos because it doesn't allow for 'threads'. It is one comment from viewer, one reply from creator, and that's it. I'd prefer an ongoing conversation so that other people can see what transpires -- especially with difficult people. When conversation is public that way, a perpetrator (or troll) can't hide (e.g. coming after you later in your private messages like what has happened to me here already).

Btw, the initial judging portal process -- don't like it much just saying. It's kind of like walking through 'the Shadow of the Valley of Death'. I feel really bad for the beginners and young'uns! No waaay will I 'blam' those poor buggers. Actually, I won't 'blam' anyone. Blamming irks me. And, winning a little badge for blamming people is in bad taste if you asked me. Which, you didn't. xP

Maybe there could be a 'portal' for newbies -- kind of like a nursery... free of blamming where they can get their feet wet and maybe even get some feedback from their peers... where videos automatically cycle out of the system and are deleted after 30 days or somethin'.

Smileys. I love those things, but I don't need 'short cuts', special buttons etc. They just add clutter and complicate things unnecessarily as far as I'm concerned. I can make my own easily enough. And, I do. All the time. As you can see. =P I find them most helpful to convey my feelings which are fundamental to my preferred way of communicating. :D (See that? How 'big words' can be softened by a BIG happy face? which btw is LACKING in the smiley button lineup here! I have to use a ROFL happy face which is this =D when I actually mean this :D for your response here. That's a HUGE Newgrounds oversight in my humblest of humble opinions. =P xD) I think I have a sense of humour and like to keep things light. Smileys also help to bridge the age gap I have with so many people I interact with on the internet (me being older, they being younger). Still, I agree with you that having extra buttons for smileys (anywhere!) is unnecessary and just adds clutter/complication.

Ahhh... I see that. I SAW that recently but I guess it just didn't register in my brain: I could just HIDE my stars and simply leave a comment now (not a REVIEW). THAT'S what I'll do then from now on. I LIKE that very much. And, just a note here. I sometimes leave a heartfelt review if I'm really motivated... and when I do, I'm only leaving it as a comment. Because, I don't like the star rating as I've mentioned. I like leaving smart (and smart arse) comments -- as independent of 'outside structure' as possible. Do you get the sense that I abhor 'authority'? In every way, shape and form. ;D

LOL you covered soooo many topics here! If there's something else you'd really like me to reply back to, just let me know what it is and I'll do my best to give you thoughtful feedback. ^_^

You really did. XD Indeed, I'm not taking this personally (hope you aren't either), though as such a long-time part of the NG fam I do feel a bit like it's my obligation to protect our image here... so there may be a little bias mixed within the turning of those stones. ;) And thank you! I do appreciate the feedback feedback too; the exchange of thoughts and ideas. Feel free to share whatever weathers!

Regarding validation, I leave my comments mostly without expectations too (exceptions for those who I know do respond to everything, or when there's a question I hope to get a response from), but that's the great thing about reviews, I feel, compared to likes. Nobody can review everything, so leaving a review doesn't leave the same implication as a like... but maybe more so because a review is also more than a like. It comes with a different kind of commitment. To that particular creation rather than the person. A freak occurrence or the first of many - there's no set pattern for the receiver to expect, unless further reviews ("I'ma watch the sequel after this") are promised.

XD Do hope I'll be equally entertained by any potential fan poop that pops up in the future! Curious how you take such things as they come, yet react so strongly to little bits of text under the review form. ;) So different are the words that spark us all!

That's true, though (protecting the NG image here I think) you can edit your reviews now, and also @ another user in the review sections if you wish to comment on something they've said before you. But yes, it's a very limited and chronological debate, where the creator ultimately has the last say on everything (though as a creator that freedom is nice too). Threaded reviews have been talked about before, but I think the consensus was that few people would actually want to start a conversation over just leaving a short comment, that it might be a burden for creators to converse with a multitude of users this way as their fanbase grows, and that it could be abused, and make way for flame wars and uglier back-and-forth's more so than positive debate. Maybe also that it'd make things complicated for casual viewers, who don't want more than a quick overview to see if they should play/watch/listen to something or no, or if they have the same impressions as others. But that could be solved by simply hiding threaded responses by default, and clicking some (read more) link to expand them.

Ultimately though I think it all boils down to lack of time to make such a feature, and weighing potential abuse against the advantages of the few.

I don't think I'd spend all too much time conversing with people in reviews either. I'd rather keep consuming than dedicate myself to the one. With exceptions, of course, but going the PM route when I have additional questions seems like a reasonable workaround. Btw if a perpetrator comes at you via reviews: that review'd be best removed no? If a debate spirals out of control that'd probably end up getting removed regardless.

Hmmm but the server space, and greater good of the site... you know? :) Maybe it's more tradition than good use... I can't say. Way too much bias there. But I do feel like something taking an effort makes the end-result all the more worthwhile. The entrance level is pretty low these days, but I think it's good there's at least some threshold. I was one of those newbs too way back. :) But it didn't dissuade me, it just made me all the more motivated to make something worthwhile, after what (looking back) was a pretty crappy set of first flashes! You get the badges for a collective effort at making sure only quality content gets through, you know. ;) Maybe that could be phrased better too though... the 'Blam' term's not so much in use these days, even in the Blam/Save system has a good ring to it. Easy to remember. It's terminology unique to NG too; part of our history.

Hmm, yeah, that sounds pretty neat! Only caveat that comes to mind is: who wants to spend time giving feedback on things that'll only be around a month? It's always disappointing seeing a review disappear, no matter why the submission did. Maybe a system where you get points for giving feedback hmm... could be validation-based, maybe as simple as: if a creator acknowledges your feedback, you get a point for it. This actually sounds really cool. No impact on server space either, but all the more incentive for new artists to sign up and start practicing! Could have a hard limit on how much they can submit here too so the place isn't totally flooded, or abused for points. Hey this is suggestible stuff! :D Could maybe have acknowledged feedbackers automatically become credited as beta-testers on the final product too, or something like that. Mind if I add it to my wishlist too (with credit of course)?

Shortcuts? Oh you mean the emoticon rows? Yeah I appreciate emotions too, but it's so easy to add a :D when you want to showcase happiness, wherever relevant, rather than add in the potential obligations of emotion-based validation for all. I've been pretty annoyed with that :D one too! XD SO MUCH. Need to vent in some official post soon. Maybe they can do something about that. I've always used the :D to imply 'great joy'; it seems to be a norm all over, or was, but now when there's suddenly a ROFL beside the emoticon I can't use it unless I know the receiver shares my understanding of what the :D really implies, and all my previous uses of this particular emoticon in topic titles (only place they existed before) now gives the wrong impression! So I just resort to a :) instead, in those emoticon responses, to annotate happiness, knowing it probably doesn't make me seem as happy as I'm supposed to seem when I'm real happy. ARGH issues. Agree 100% on this one!

Haha yeah, I think I have! Maybe as an author... I've learned to be OK with authority. :P Btw, even with their LIKE system, FB are authoritative on a whole other level. I mean: implicitly. Very much dislike less transparent tactics of control like theirs. I am glad you like this particular change here though! And I agree, reviewing freedom just increased exponentially! Smart move on NG's part actually keeping the rating too, and just adding the option to hide it, so if things don't work out and changes need to made it'll all be easy to attend to. :) Unlike the gap of personal vote data some ~10 years prior, which with this rating change resulted in submissions with a large amount of positive reviews suddenly jumping way ahead of all submissions with more recent positive (but fewer, as activity's lesser now) votes, totally jumbling up all the toplists and making it impossible for new submissions to get on there... I think they're going to have to change SOMETHING there. Curious to see how they do it. I don't really see a good solution apart from bringing back old vote data, but that's still not fair considering you could vote multiple times on the same submission back in the day, once every day, anonymously, and a lot of people did...

...but maybe you're not all that interested in this particular issue. XD

Hmm, topics that require thoughtful feedback... any thoughts on how the 3,000 characters don't seem to really be enough on newspost comment responses? ;) They might need to lift that limit! Nah, no particular indulgent responses required on your part, I just can't seem to keep these responses moderately lengthy! It's a WIP.

@TheBabbleBeast @Cyberdevil Sorry to jump into your discussion, I just thought I should give my opinion. First off, I'm definitely at least a little biased, because I look up to CyberDevil. I don't think a like system would work (especially without dislikes). It's just not specific enough. Without dislikes, the only votes would be from people who don't like the submission. That way, you'd have no way to know how many people actually didn't like it and how many just didn't watch it. This way there's an average that tells you the community consensus. Even with dislikes, it wouldn't work, because a dislike can be anywhere from a zero to, like, a 2.5. Same goes for a like. You have no way to know if people hated it, loved it, or were lukewarm about it. The idea of a "no critique" button feels wrong to me. Everyone should receive critique, whether they want to or not. I am allowed to voice my opinion on whichever work of art I wish. I kinda understand if someone is just doing it for fun and they don't really wanna become experts, but you should still be able to tell them how to make their things more enjoyable for everyone. The idea of a blam free nursery is interesting, but without blams, there would be no point to the judgment system and the rank system would collapse. As for review threads, I don't think there's much need for them, and I feel like they cna get overly long and confusing. As for the threat below the review form, it's simply telling you not to be the guy who says "cool" or "this sucked" or "go die, fag". In my opinion, just saying a couple sentences about what you liked and didn't like is enough, as long as it's telling the author what needs to be improved/they did right. Being rewarded for reviewing would be great though. There's also no way to make a perfect system where users are in control, but I feel like Newgrounds gives us enough freedom and allows us to present legitimate opinions, and I like that. I'm sure there's more I need to touch on, but I'll leave that for tomorrow.

Hey, always good with new perspectives, and thank you! No worries as far as I'm concerned (hope @TheBabbleBeast doesn't mind). I assume you mean to say that 'Without likes, the only votes would be from people who don't like the submission'? Do agree. It's not all sunshine and rainbows, but at least it's helpful, hopefully. Life's not all black or white. Not all good and bad. Freedoms of the users weighed against the freedoms of the creators. As an artist: of course people will have an opinion on your art. It's good that even negative opinions have a place in the same community; aren't voiced via other channels instead, like it is for artists in more mainstream media. That way the creator does have a semblance of control over their feedback, direct access to it too, and the user should think twice about what they write knowing the creator might take note of their word. The Internet itself is a bit of an issue there when you don't have to face someone to say something to them, but at least this is closer. A bit more personal. A bit more brought for thought.

Well, I think I already said this below with different words... basically: agree with this. If either creator or user's abusive in their exchange then hopefully rules can settle such grievances. More rewards would definitely be good too.

Whatever happened to tomorrow btw? ;)

I am generally thrilled that after all these years you are still such a core NGer.

Always OneWhoListens. :) NG's like a part of my core being now! Thanks.

Sorry, I meant, without dislikes, the only votes would be from people who DID like the submission. I hope that makes more sense now :)

I figured. :) No worries!

Oh shit, I'm a little late to the party but congrats on finally making it to level 60 dude.

Many thanks good dude! Sure took a while. I mean: to get to that 60.

Damn, I didn't even realize you had reached level 60. Congrats!

Yeah time flies huh. :) Thanks!